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  1. #1
    canadianstripper Guest

    Thumbs up

    We're always looking for new ideas to make our boats better, and this includes the elimination of staples from the process. However, we still need to keep time down to a reasonable level.
    My latest approach is toothpick doweling.
    By predrilling the strips on a level plane, and then using that hole as a guide to drill into the lower strip when planking, we give ourselves an effective means of fastening.
    If we drill a small enough hole we can use toothpicks which are cheap, easily available, and light. We can also use as many as we need, regardless of where the form is.
    Has anyone else ever used this method? Or do you have any other ideas?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4
    CS, have you already used this technique? I must say, my curiosity is piqued. How well does it work? What are the pitfalls? Any additional info would be greatly appreciated.

    Duncan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    tyndall, mb. canada
    Posts
    3

    Cedar stripping without staples/fasteners

    I kind of like the idea of using toothpicks to hold strips in place while glue sets. However, I don't understand if the picks are removed or sanded flush with the hull. If removed, I assume there are still small holes left to be filled before the hull is finished. If sanded flush, the circular heads are still, I assume, visible when the canoe is finished. Because toothpicks are similar to dowels -- lots of long grain, small amount of end grain -- the end grain is visible on the finished hull. By its nature, this grain will absorb more finish than the long grain cedar and therefore the finished pick heads will appear like black dots on the surface of the hull -- an aesthetic problem for the picky builder. Moreover, if the picks are removed before finishing the finished holes must be filled with a mixture of cedar dust and epoxy glue because aliphatic resins shrink when they dry causing all kinds of problems when filling holes in cedar or any wood for that matter. Also, sanding hundreds of epoxy filled holes adds a lot of time to the finishing process. I am attempting to use a technique in which 4" lenghts of hard wood battens(white oak in this case) with holes drilled either end for #6 x 1" screws, are used to hold three cedar strips at a time to each form as the glue applied to the bead and cove joints sets. With this technique, fasteners are not required because the battens are screwed to the forms at right angles to the planking and removed when the glue is sufficiently dry for the planks to maintain their curvature. for mass production, this method is probably a little slow, but less time is required to fair the hull and there are no filled holes to mar the beauty of the finished cedar hull. I'd like to hear from anyone who tried this method and/or the toothpick technique.
    Cheers,
    David

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1

    Mark W

    You can make a few dozen u shaped pieces of thin plywood and clamp then to the section form or screw them to the side of the section forms to hold the first strip (cove up) in place, tight against the form. Then apply glue cove to first strip place new strip in place. Now place a 1" or 2" 1/8" dia. wood dowel in the new strips cove and hold in place by screwing a 1 1/4" sheetrock screw against the dowel forcing the dowel against the new strip. This will force the joint between the strips and eliminate all the staple holes. Elmer's Pro Bond yellow carpenters gjue works will with it's 15 minute set time. This takes a little longer but looks great by eliminating the staple holes.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    tyndall, mb. canada
    Posts
    3
    Thanks Mark W. re your tip to use 1/8" dowels and screws to hold strips in place without staples.
    Best, David S.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan
    Posts
    2

    stapleless strip construction

    I built a 16' Peterborough canoe and used the following method to hold strips tightly together without staples.

    I used bead and cove strips that were held to the building form using rubber banding strips that were about 1/2" wide, 1/8" thick and 5-6' long. I had these bands made at Fournier Rubber Co. in Columbus Ohio.

    As you know, there are two directions of compression that is important strip construction. Firstly, strips must be held firmly against the form to assure proper hull shape, and secondly, they must be compressed together to achieve a tight glue joint. The rubber bands serve the first purpose i.e. hold the strips against the forms.

    Method: Screw 2" drywall screws into the underside of each building form station about 2" from the gunwale on both the port and starboard side. Tie one end of the rubber banding material to all screws on one side (i.e. either port or starboard) of the building form. The purpose of these screws is to secure the stretched rubber bands that in turn, held the strips to the forms.

    To provide an anchor for strip compression, i.e. ability to compress strips together to achieve a tight glue joint, it will be necessary to tack the very first strip to the forms at the gunwale edge of the forms. Very few nail holes will not show once the outer gunwale is attached. After gluing the bead and cove surfaces that will mate, lay the second strip on the "anchor" strip at about mid-ship. and on the side that has the rubber banding tied. Throw the free end of the rubber band over the form and then from the other side of the form, stretch the band tight and tie it off on the screw on that side of the form. Move to the next station and repeat the process untill all bands are attached.

    Once this first strip is glued to the anchor strip and held firmly against the form with the rubber banding, a second strip can be applied. (I was able to glue about four strips per side at a time; attempts to apply more that 4 strips/side before allowing the glue to dry became rather unwieldy). Obviously, to apply additional 3 strips, you have to remove the rubber bands. This is easily done. After glue application to each surface, untie the mid-ship band, (leaving all other bands stretched and tied) and lay the strip in place. Re-apply the band as before and move on to the next form and repeat the procedure.

    To compress the 4 strips together, apply downward pressure on the last strip applied to close any gaps between strips. To maintain this pressure, tack a 3-6" piece of scrap strip material to the form.

    I know this sounds complicated and slow, but its probably due to my inability to clearly describe the process than it really is. The bottom line is, it is slower than staples, but the end product is worth it. It really is rather straight forward once you get in the groove. Try it! You'll like it!

    Cheers, ronchat

    I know this procedure sounds complicated and slow, but believe me, it is not difficult. It is slower than staples for sure, but then the end-product is well worth the effort.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan
    Posts
    2

    stapleless strip construction

    I built a 16' Peterborough canoe and used the following method to hold strips tightly together without staples.

    I used bead and cove strips that were held to the building form using rubber banding strips that were about 1/2" wide, 1/8" thick and 5-6' long. I had these bands made at Fournier Rubber Co. in Columbus Ohio.

    As you know, there are two directions of compression that is important strip construction. Firstly, strips must be held firmly against the form to assure proper hull shape, and secondly, they must be compressed together to achieve a tight glue joint. The rubber bands serve the first purpose i.e. hold the strips against the forms.

    Method: Screw 2" drywall screws into the underside of each building form station about 2" from the gunwale on both the port and starboard side. Tie one end of the rubber banding material to all screws on one side (i.e. either port or starboard) of the building form. The purpose of these screws is to secure the stretched rubber bands that in turn, hold the strips to the forms.

    To provide an anchor for strip compression, i.e. allow compression of strips together to achieve a tight glue joint, it will be necessary to tack the very first strip to the forms at the gunwale edge of the forms. Very few nail holes will show once the outer gunwale is attached. After gluing the bead and cove surfaces that will mate, lay the second strip on the "anchor" strip at about mid-ship. and on the side that has the rubber banding tied. Throw the free end of the rubber band over the form and then from the other side of the form, stretch the band tight and tie it off on the screw on that side of the form. Move to the next station and repeat the process untill all bands are attached.

    Once this first strip is glued to the anchor strip and held firmly against the form with the rubber banding, a second strip can be applied. (I was able to glue about four strips per side at a time; attempts to apply more that 4 strips/side before allowing the glue to dry became rather unwieldy). Obviously, to apply additional 3 strips, you have to remove the rubber bands. This is easily done. After glue application to each surface, untie the mid-ship band, (leaving all other bands stretched and tied) and lay the strip in place. Re-apply the band as before and move on to the next form and repeat the procedure.

    To compress the 4 strips together, apply downward pressure on the last strip applied to close any gaps between strips. To maintain this pressure, tack a 3-6" piece of scrap strip material to the form.

    I know this sounds complicated and slow, but its probably more due to my inability to clearly describe the process than it really is. The bottom line is, it is slower than staples, but the end product is worth it. It really is rather straight forward once you get in the groove. Try it! You'll like it!

    Cheers, ronchat

    I know this procedure sounds complicated and slow, but believe me, it is not difficult. It is slower than staples for sure, but then the end-product is well worth the effort.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    SAVANNAH, GA
    Posts
    1

    Rubber band alternative

    Surgical tubing from leevalley might be an attractive alternative. Any local homehealth/pharmacy may have it as well v/s physical therapy rubber banding. I'm going to try surgical tubing and sacrificial strips in the top of my cape ann storm from oneoceankayaks.com. you can also glue blocks to the stations for c-clamping.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    4

    Fishing line method for gluing strips. read here


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    4

    this link has pics

    http://www.bearmountainboats.com/php...t=fishing+line

    This link has pics for fishing line

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pickering, ON, Canada
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by David Square
    However, I don't understand if the picks are removed or sanded flush with the hull.,
    David
    DAVID -- I believe these holes are drilled through the the planking edgeways in the centre of the cove just like you would when dowelling boards together edgeways???. I can only assume that the objective is to pin the planking together. If this is the case, the toothpicks are actually concealed. Does anyone else have another explanation???

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4
    Woodbark; That was also how I understood the message. Independantly, I thought of a similar methodology...shooting a wire nail (stainless) into the top of the glued strip with a nail gun. The nails and the toothpicks would be left inside the skin of the boat. Have not tried either, but you gotta wonder...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4
    I was also looking at the old posts for using fishing line and that is just crazy, man! Why not screw a couple of eyelets into the face of molds, run a bungee around each sheer and hook it in? You could make a piece of 1/4 ply with a strap on the back that you could run the bungee through, put some plastic wrap on the face, and viola!, you have a couple of protective pads to align at the strip edge that won's stick to the glue and won't let the bungee touch the strip and ruin it. How hard is that ?

    Okay, you might have to adjust the eyelet location and use different length bungees so the tension is right, but you wouldn't want to feel like this is too easy. Also, you can put some kind of lip on the protective pad that would hook over the strips nice and snug and get force applied in two directions!


 

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